Why do we live according to customs in order to keep things in order? Order is not maintained by rules or guidelines, but by the man holding the gun. A system has been set up by our government, to stop us from doing the things we would instinctually do, and why? To maintain order, an elusive destination with which we are so out of touch that we no longer know it’s meaning. American troupes walked in to Afghanistan to maintain order. Hitler shipped Jewish women and children off to concentration camps to maintain order. The town folk in The Lottery stoned people to death each year to maintain the order of a good harvest. How far will we go to achieve order, how far will we go before we realize we have waltzed over the fine line of “erring on the side of caution” and into the oblivion that is overreaction? Do we need to have a thousand and one laws to determine what is and is not safe?
Life is a gift, a gift meant to be enjoyed. The customs, the laws, are they all necessary? If love of all things guides your steps, what harm can you cause? And if Hatred is the demon on your shoulder, have you ever wondered who put it there? A law tempts even the strongest of wills to break it, but a freedom encourages a man to do what is right in the eyes of his people. So why not live in caves, cease to work and live that way for the rest of forever? If this is what shall bring us peace and quiet then we shall and must do it. Take up the torch; hold it high, it’s time that we realized there is more to life than technology and society. It’s time that we realized that in order to obtain order, one must first leave it behind.
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So basically you're saying that if humans are left to their own devices they will be able to govern themselves? Where the hell is the fun in that?
ReplyDeleteLife is meaningless, yet it is what marks the difference between the maker of changes and the follower of changes.
ReplyDeleteEvery life is, by large, a set of ever changing chess board, always so small yet each containing spaces for infinite creations.
Every small square represent a small piece,
A fragment of finite space and size,
Finite creation, finite change, and finite mass.
Yet when all of them are assembled, they unite to form consciousness, and our imagination that is always limitless.
Order is not something that is stiff and unchanging. After all, every trial, new cases are digged up and special grants are given. The ones who made the laws may be stone hearted, but we are the ones who seats to judge.
Does anyone know how I scored in the debate tournament? I was too tired to wait all the way till the end of the award ceremony...
ReplyDeleteWhy are you asking on the blog? Obviously Only me and Steven an answer your question. Oh and yeah you didn't score very well
ReplyDeleteI agree with governmental order and rule. Order (in essence) defines the rational cognition in humans, and how a society is built upon not chaos and disorder but laws and rules to rid injustices and sins. If there is no order whatsoever, chaos and survival instincts will rule over an anarchistic world of wild beasts. Similarly to the mentality of the boys in "Lord of the Flies."In summation, political order is what seperates man from beast.
ReplyDeleteHowever, order is relative to the headfigure of a state government. For example, the Reich of Germany, set up their laws to maintain order for the "Aryans" and treated "Non-Aryans" as subhumans. To the Nazis, "Non-Aryans" deserved to be exiled in toturous camps because they were viewed sinful. If order falls under the wrong hands, the situation will be detrimental to affected populations.
Actually I think she is proposing a world similar to this
ReplyDeleteMusubi
"I am the center of the world."
Musubi is a Reason based on solitude and isolation, where the Self is absolute. Every single person would live in his or her own independent world, completely sealed from any other living being. Using one's mind, a person could shape their world at will into their own personal paradise, living free from the unwelcome interference of others. This Reason is most closely associated with the Neutral alignment of previous Shin Megami Tensei games. The Reason Musubi closely resembles Rene Descartes' idea of solipsism, a philosophy of the solitary self which is based in individualism and solitude.
In reply to Sote's first question: where the hell is the fun in having a government decide what is right and wrong for us? Shouldn't we be able to determine right and wrong for ourselves, and if we see wrong done around us, shouldn't we be allowed to step up and put an end to it?
ReplyDeleteJisong, I am very sorry to hear that you believe life to be meaningless. But I guess that should account for why you seem so incapable of love and pure happiness.
And Steven, I quite appreciate your reference to William Golding's Lord of the Flies, but you realize that the boys did have a sense of what was justice, and do you not believe that if they had been left to their own devices longer they would have straightened their lives out? Your point about the Nazis is insightful, but in essence, that was what I was getting at. How can we be so certain that our own government is not the wrong hands for us to be placing order in? Anyway, I realize that this is turning into a novel, so I'll shut up now.
oh, yeah, Timothy, you are almost accurate, but a statement that would more suit my purposes would be
ReplyDelete"WE are the pinnacle of existence"
(I realize that quoting the illuminati may be an unwise choice, given that they were elitist fools, but it was the only statement that was similar enough to the one you mentioned) a small community is able to support itself provisionally, and allows it's members to become more intimately knowledgeable of each other. It simplifies life and ensures that any unwelcome members of the community can be shut out at will. Thus it creates a "personal paradise" as you mentioned, but one shared by a few individuals who are of similar minds, interests, and goals.
Please read my post CAREFULLY. I DID not just state life is meaningless without STATING the IMPORTANCE OF it. I stated that only when one is LIVING can he create changes to the environment around him. Without life, he is a manipulatable object of nature. I do not agree that I am incapable of emotion but I do not believe my wishes of expressing my emotions is any where near relevant to the topic either.
ReplyDeleteSome people believe that everything needs an end, but what is the point of life if its solo go is to venture into the place where no living human has went before?
Nevertheless, how does insulting me that I am incapable of having happiness and emotion help you to prove your points?
It's fun because often there will be a clashing of morals. Almost always there be a battle of conviction. Because when anyone tells you what is right and what is wrong, there will always be someone who disagrees and when they stand up to defend their ideals I think that is the beautiful part. If a world contains people like this, people who will stand up for code of their existence than it can truly begin to be fun. However in a world where people are off by themselves, a world where no one interacts, things like clash are non-existent. Sure they may have ideals and morals, but if there is no one to disagree with them and no one to agree with them then, it becomes meaningless because there is nothing to prove it's worth.
ReplyDeleteI read your post already Jisong, and I disagree with you either way. Life has meaning regardless of each and every individual involved and whether or not those individuals state it's importance. and that is where I find fault in your argument. this world would be no more or less complete if you or I were not in it, it would merely be less "interesting" for those who are in direct contact with us. and the dead impact the living in ways so complex that it is incredible, not as ghosts but as memories. I truly believe that no one ever "dies" in the scientific sense of the word. Even after a sentient being's heart stops beating and it's body can no longer reproduce and respond to stimuli, it's conscience is every bit as alert as it was when the being was "alive." there, that was my dose of philosophy/ theology for the day. And I admit I was unspeakably rude and for that I apologize, but what you said has a meaning that, for all it's many reasons, may mean more to me than to you.
ReplyDeleteTimothy, you misread what I am saying. I never said there would not be clashes of opinion, and I certainly did not suggest individual seclusion from society. I am suggesting a form of "tribal" government as it were. I am saying that, while not scientifically productive, a society would be more safe and sound if many smaller groups governed themselves within one main group. There would of course be the occasional moral disagreement, and with it would come some degree of danger; but the danger would subside because the two disagreeing groups would be aware that they only had to work together so long as it was mutually beneficial for their groups. and why, may I ask, do you seem to have this perverse fascination with/need for fun?
ReplyDeleteYou guys are great!
ReplyDeleteThe question about how meaningful life is completely irrelevant to the topic and I am very sure that proving life has importance does not prove that order must be obtained at all cost. Most importantly of all is that meaning of life is something that is not debatable.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, if you don't believe in God, and believes that everything came from big bang...There is absolutely no reason for u to believe life has a meaning. After all, in that case we are all accidents that happened some how over time.
If you do believe in God, you might need to consult a priest or something about the meaning of life.
An rather interesting note though...All multicellular organisms came from individual cells. Therefore, there must be a point the past when cells suddenly decide to stick togather and form one unity. It must also be noted that due to the nature of cell division, all unicellular organisms are immortal assuming immortality is defined as living forever in an idealistic condition with no foreign threats or lack of resources. In a sense, all of us are formed because cells decided that should form something that can die naturally.
Life needs no meaning if life is useful. Usefulness is practicality and something we can observe without defining. Definition therefore will also be useless if the object speaks for itself, and that can only be made if it is useful.
ReplyDeletejust one more thing...i need a partner for the story stuff...I realized that if I decide to write 3 endings...it will be at least 12 pages double sided with font 10 Arial...
ReplyDeleteRight, but Helen you see that people don't always care for mutual aid. Rather at one point there will be people that will seek to undermine everyone else and dominate the world. Also I like having fun and reading interesting things. Is there something wrong with that? If something is interesting I usually like it.
ReplyDeleteJisong what I was trying to say is like this, anything by itself with nothing to confirm its existence is non-existent. Because said philosophy is the only one apparent to the person, it is no longer a philosophy. It is merely there. Because nothing else exists that can contrast and define the phenomenon it has no worth. Therefore as you said, it has no meaning.
Jisong, as far as I'm concerned the meaning of our lives grows along with us. Our beliefs change, we change, and so does the meaning of our lives. I don't need a priest to tell me what my life means. And meaning to life isn't at all irrelevant to maintaining order. If, for example, I was a member of the Mossad, I would view the meaning of my life would be stopping terrorists from taking over the world. That would involve maintaining order. If I was a terrorist, my goal would be blowing up the world, which would destroy order temporarily if I succeeded.
ReplyDeleteTimothy, please define "interesting." (Not from the dictionary.)
"Interesting" huh? Well, it wouldn't be surprising if I couldn't define it. However to me something interesting is something that's fun. Something that if I had to live forever wouldn't bore me or something like that.
ReplyDeleteWill both Jisong and Timothy end this cynic-existentialistic nonsense! Just because both of you posesses this mentality, not all humans are exactly identical.
ReplyDeleteSteven, please realize that you are the odd one out.
ReplyDeleteNo Jisong, he isn't. but to be fair, Steven, you can't really ask them not to assume that everyone else will possess the same mentality as they do, because it is naturally human to assume that everyone else thinks the same way as ones self.
ReplyDeletebecause we are all 95% similar genetically.
ReplyDeleteCan you cite a source for that, please? Because I highly doubt that.
ReplyDeleteJisong's statistics is the genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees!
ReplyDelete"Any two unrelated people share about 99.5% of their DNA sequence."
-International HapMap Project
Hmm. I'm not entirely sure how that is relevant to what anyone had posted, but it's kind of interesting.
ReplyDeletefine, at least all of you agreed that it is natural for humans to believe that their believes are the majority.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, i just checked, we have less than 0.1% difference if we are in the same race.
ReplyDeleteHmm...we must be very close to the end of our evolution or very close to the start...
ReplyDeletepfft. evolution? yeah right. DNA information can be dropped, switched, or mutated, but not added to. oh yeah, the mutations that occur last only one generation, because either the mutated individual becomes sterile or the mutation doesn't reoccur. and when i say switched, i don't refer to a change in DNA i refer to a simple coloring alteration, for instance, my eyes are blue, but neither of my parents are. evolution is at current times a "theory" but as far as i'm concerned, it's a big fat lie.
ReplyDeleteEvolution is a theory because we have no proof of an emerging species at the moment, however the process of evolution is taking place right now. Genetic variations from heredity, mutations and adaptations for survival to the ever-changing environment is happening every generation of a species. Sadly, we do not see mallard ducks evolving or diverging into two new species of ducks. That would be cool and make evolution a law.
ReplyDeleteFine Helen, we are still in the process of constant evolution. Look at the bright side: who knows what kind of wonderful mutants humans can become?
ReplyDeleteEvolution can not be completely right as it lacks how life came about in the first place.
ReplyDeleteCreationism can not be proved because proving the existence of any being higher up is currently an undebatable topic.
Evolution is only supported by fossils and the fact that all of the races of animals and plants appear to share the same form of genetic make up. Therefore unless all of life is created instaneously with the same material, then one must believe that every one of us is a product of variations in life. Since no new life has yet to form out of no where, it is logical to assume that some how we evolved and moved on. As for how the first cell is made, we must see if we can make one ourselves. One note though, scientists has found that structures that mimics cell membranes can be formed when certain materials namely amino acid mixtures are exposed to a lab replica of early conditions on Earth.
ReplyDeletefine, so we'll just say that humans along with every thing else on this planet are just a wonderful and highly improbable mistake. how lovely. and honestly, i'm not going into my full-tilt evolution debate here on the blog, but if you'll ask me about it sometime, i'll be able to run circles around you information-wise. i have researched evolution to an insane degree and my verdict is deffinitely against.
ReplyDeleteOne important note though, DNA can be reintroduced to a cell. That is how stem cells are made.
ReplyDeleteyour entire body is not made of stem cells. and that is copied DNA, not new DNA, DNA cannot spontaneously alter itself.
ReplyDeleteDNA changes itself all the time what are you talking about? DNA is constantly spliting itself to form RNA to make proteins.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, your body is made of 100% stem cells because every single cell inside your body is specialized from a stem cell. That is why stem cells in theory can help the regeneration of organs.
One interesting question though...can someone be both romantic and scientific at the same time? My answer to that is," assuming God exist and he is all and everything, then the person who created us is obviously both scientific and romantic."
ReplyDeleteIn fact, most artists are scientific. Realistic drawings and portraits require great understanding of human anatomy and the idea of space and perspective.
Unfortunately, nothing in this world can be proven absolutely. So everything is a theory. You can argue that something does definitely exist, but because no one can see everything from your point of view, it's pretty meaningless. Whether evolution exists or not is all that important. What's important is that everything on this planet changes.Nothing is exactly the same as it was a second ago, and nothing will ever be exactly the same as it was before. The theory of evolution was put forth as a way of explaining why biotic things changed. It is mans way of trying to rationalize that irrational, or rather man is being irrational in trying to define a phenomenon that was present since the beginning life.
ReplyDeletebrilliantly put sotes, you have an excellent point there about how not everyone can see everything from a particular individual's point of view. but do we not argue for the most part, to reassure ourselves of our own beliefs rather than to convince others? if this is the case then our arguments are not entirely meaningless.
ReplyDeletealso Jisong, I never said that someone cannot be both romantic and scientific, i said it was unlikely. and as humans, we don't exactly compare to god. furthermore, i don't see how a discussion we had in socials applies to the blog. and could you cite your source for, and i quote, "your body is made of 100% stem cells" because we all know of your nasty little habit of dropping statistics without sources and making silly mistakes. I think you should look up what stem cells are just to refresh your memory by the way, because if they were all that you were made up of, you'd be a mass of cells with no defined shape or purpose, you would exist without realization of your existence, and you certainly wouldn't have the potential to evolve, because you would have no way to obtain food (ie, energy) and you would die within a few weeks of the commencement of your "life."
May,
ReplyDeleteYour response is amazing. A lot of the things you've mentioned can be easily created into smart-sounding quotes. I may not agree in everything you've said, but you say everything in a strong, but unoffensive, say, I enjoyed reading your writing a lot! I tried to read all 41 post, but it became really scientific, and I was looking for literature and debate.
And one more thing to everyone, for the respect to people that dont want to be revealed, I suggest we use their blog name.
But May, that was awesome, and I look forward to reading your other response!
Thank you Pag for one of the kindest comments that has been made on this blog. And honestly, I was hoping for a little debate and literature as well, but the guys seem pretty bent on scientific arguments. I definitely agree with you on the concept of using people's screen names, the exception "Guess who I am's" because his screen name is just a little bit longer than is possible to type out multiple times.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhoops, that was my bro. I'm just going to delete his comment. Anyway I agree with May. Pag you have some of the kindest comments of anyone on this blog. And also I disagree on there has been on Science and the like. I'm pretty such I made some moral inquiries and comments.
ReplyDeleteYour comment confuses me, but I think I get the gist of what you were saying. You haven't been all that scientific, come to think of it. But Steven and Jisong have! Everything seems to turn into a debate about technology or evolution or both when one of them is around...
ReplyDeleteSorry to interrupt your discussion, but I just wanted to say,
ReplyDeleteYou guys are very amusing to read, I love how you managed to have nearly fifty posts from the meaning of life to stem cells.
By the way, if there is no being higher up or any other intelligent lives on other planets, we are gods. As no one created us, and we will eventually dominate much of the universe. Therefore, arguing about not comparing us to gods is ridiculous and unimportant. After all, even if God does exist and we ate the forbidden fruit, we should have more power than God. Given that the Bible stated that the Devil is deceitful but not a liar.
ReplyDeleteI am amazed at how talkative we are...
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I tend to like to switch topics because I can always link it back to the main discussion...
ReplyDeletewow all these comments took me longer to read than finishing my math homework...and i didnt even read the comments completely
ReplyDeleteWhatever, switching topics are a good way to continue this trend of mass writing
ReplyDeleteHow can you be deceitful without being a liar?
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah.... we are kind of talkative.